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Abilities and Tactics A place to discuss SK abilities such as Spells, AA\'s, and Melee as well as how to best use them.

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Old 12-15-2005, 06:37 PM   #1
Deccado
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Default Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Melee Aggro, Reposted

This comes from Brael's original post on 11/07/03. I was going to originally post this in a couple more days, but I have been having trouble convincing most potential testers to assist me with this so in the hopes of sparking some interest I am posting this early even though it means everything isn't 100% accurate. All tests done on Tarmok Beetle Harvesters in Fungus Grove. Using some basic info found here I decided to figure out SK melee aggro generation. If you don't feel like reading the thread I just linked what it shows is that each swing of a weapon (not to be confused with a round) provides a set amount of aggro regardless of the amount of damage done or as is often the case, not done. The rest of the information however is more or less irrelevant for us other than the formula used to determine hate/swing. Also, just for the sake of comparison I used the same mobs/spells in my testing however any could be used. To start with I verified the initial testing with Terror spells. The first thing to do was to confirm that Terrors do or do not work at range. Test 1: Cast Terror of Darkness once, SK #2 stands 150 range away and casts Terror of Thule, takes 2 casts to pull aggro off me. Test 2: Cast Terror of Darkness twice, SK #2 stands 150 range away and casts Terror of Thule, takes 2 casts to pull aggro off me. Test 3: Disarm mob to initially get on the hate list and cast Terror of Darkness x2, SK #2 stands 150 range away and casts Terror of Thule, takes 2 casts to pull aggro off me. Test 4: Cast Terror of Thule once, SK #2 stands 150 range away and casts Terror of Darkness, takes 2 casts to pull aggro off me. Test 5: Disarm mob to initially get on the hate list and cast Terror of Thule, SK #2 stands 150 range away casts Terror of Darkness, takes 5 casts to pull aggro off me. Test 6: Cast Terror of Thule twice, SK #2 stands 150 range away and casts Terror of Thule twice. Mob stays on me, run mob closer to other SK than to me and mob turns to the other SK. Repeat placing me as the closer SK and aggro back to me. Conclusions: Terrors have a hate cap on them when used as your first method of aggro on a mob, in addition to this mobs's have a hate cap on their initial aggro which most likely increases as the mobs level increases. Higher level Terrors hit this hate cap when casted on lower level mobs, but lower level Terrors do not. Terrors work exactly as they're supposed to at range and are not coded to give low amounts of hate when outside of melee range. Now that we know for certain that Terror works like its supposed to, testing weapons can begin. The method used is similar to the post I linked, I pull the mob with Terror of Terris and then cast it either 1 or 3 more times depending on which test is being done. I'm going to start with 2h weapons. The weapons used for this test are: Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36, 39 db) Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48, 49 db) Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42, 42 db) Mob pulled with Terror of Terris then hit with Terror of Terris once more, then engaged in melee. Fine Steel Great Staff Terror of Terris casted twice Test 1: 12 swings until it turned on me (last round double attack) 232 damage 5 hits 7 misses Test 2: 11 swings until it turned on me 281 damage 6 hits 5 misses Test 3: 11 swings until it turned on me 299 damage 6 hits 5 misses Test 4: 11 swings until it turned on me 278 damage 6 hits 5 misses Test 5: 11 swings until it turned on me 335 damage 5 hits 6 misses Test 6: 12 swings until it turned on me (last round double attack) 741 damage 11 hits 1 miss Terror of Terris casted four times Test 1: 29 swings until the mob was pulled off me 1109 damage 17 hits 12 misses Test 2: 29 swings until the mob was pulled off me 1130 damage 16 hits 13 misses At this point I confirmed that just like in the other tests our aggro is based on swings, so could shorten the number of tests needed significantly as I only need to confirm the number of swings to pull aggro. Sullied Two-Handed Sword Terror of Terris casted twice. Test 1: 11 swings until it turned on me (last round triple) 398 damage 5 hits 6 misses Test 2: 9 swings until it turned on me 625 damage 9 hits 0 misses Test 3: 11 swings until it turned on me (last round triple) 481 damage 7 hits 4 misses Test 4: 9 swings until it turned on me 318 damage 4 hits 5 misses Test 5: 10 swings until it turned on me (last round double) 612 damage 7 hits 3 misses Terror of Terris casted four times. Test 1: 23 swings until it turned on me 1173 damage 16 hits 7 misses Test 2: 23 swings until it turned on me 822 damage 11 hits 12 misses Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff Terror of Terris casted twice Test 1: 10 swings until it turned on me (last swing double) 762 damage 8 hits 2 misses Test 2: 9 swings until it turned on me 384 damage 4 hits 5 misses Test 3: 9 swings until it turned on me 393 damage 5 hits 4 misses Terror of Terris casted four times Test 1: 24 swings until it turned on me 1268 damage 15 hits 9 misses Test 2: 24 swings until it turned on me 1206 damage 13 hits 11 misses Using the formula of Initial Aggro+Subsequent Aggro=Swings*X*Hate per spell, with X equaling the % of the spell being cast (in this case, % of 510) and substituting Initial Aggro for the value Y we have the following formulas for the three weapons. FS Staff: Y+510=5610X and Y+1530=14790X Sword: Y+510=4590X and Y+1530=11730X Enchanted Staff: Y+510=4590X and Y+1530=12240X Solving these we find that for the value for the FS Great Staff is .11, the Sword is .14, and the Enchanted Staff is .13. However, there is actually a range here with the values being .105-.1149, .135-.1449, and .125-.1349. This gives the weapons the following hate ranges Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36 39 dmg bonus) 54-59 range Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48 49 dmg bonus) 69-74 range Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42 42 bonus) 64-69 range Finding a formula from this I determined there the aggro formula is Dmg+Dmg Bonus*Mod, this mod is somewhere between 1.22 and 1.29, more weapons need tested in order to narrow this formula down further. One Handed weapons: For 1h tests I used the following weapons: Blade of Abgoration (20/39 13 bonus) Dagger (3/20 13 bonus) Tri-Plated Golden Hackle Hammer (14/24 13 bonus) Blade of Abgoration Terror of Terris casted twice. 22 swings until it turned on me 1603 damage 16 hits 6 misses 23 swings until it turned on me (last swing double) 968 damage 12 hits 11 misses Terror of Terris casted four times. 63 swings until it turned on me 2928 damage 34 hits 29 misses 63 swings until it turned on me 2707 damage 39 hits 24 misses Dagger Terror of Terris casted twice. 48 swings until it turned on me (last swing double) 589 damage 25 hits 23 misses 48 swings until it turned on me (last swing double) 677 damage 28 hits 20 misses 48 swings until it turned on me 879 damage 34 hits 14 misses Terror of Terris casted four times. 135 swings until it turned on me (last swing double) 2047 damage 53 misses 82 hits 134 swings until it turned on me 1899 damage 79 hits 55 misses Tri-Plated Golden Hackle Hammer Terror of Terris casted twice. 27 swings, (last swing double) 1216 damage 21 hits 6 misses 28 swings, (last swing double) 951 damage 14 hits 14 misses Terror of Terris casted four times. 78 swings, (last swing double) 3184 damage 52 hits 26 misses 77 swings (last swing double) 3123 damage 52 hits 25 misses Putting this data into the formulas, the results are Hammer: 14 damage 13 bonus, 18-23 range x value was 20 Dagger: 3 damage 13 bonus, 8-13 range, x value was 10 Blade: 20 damage 13 bonus, 23-28 range, x value was 26 Right now I believe the formula for this is similar to the 2h one with the only difference being the modifier (dmg+dmg bonus*mod), however the mod for 1h is currently a much larger range with it varying from 0.35 to 0.65. PS. Only 1 Tarmok was hurt in the gathering of this data, and it was his own fault for daring me to /disc IHT him. Sometime tomarrow I will hopefully be able to confirm or deny that the formulas work, and if they do, I should be able to narrow the valid range on the modifier down significantly, I should have 1h/2h bash completed tomarrow as well. Also, I have begun testing spell aggro and just like in melee there is a modifier (on non direct +/- hate spells) but I cannot tell what it is or how big it is currently, I need way more testing on that before I can start to figure it out. One more thing, it's also my current believe that the voice line works by moidfying what I will now refer to as the hate modifyer, what this means is that if someone had a modifier of 1.25 and Voice of Thule was casted on them the new modifier would be 1.42 (1.24/.88). And one final comment before I get some much needed sleep. Thanks to Okami, Thenger, and Percog for helping me test this so far.
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Old 12-15-2005, 06:40 PM   #2
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I would really like this whole thread moved over and archived again, though some of the information may be dated. I read this entire thread when I first went to SKG, and I've ended up being a better Sk for it. Also, I think in there was an important piece of information, which is Taunt = Aggro + 1, but you need Aggro + 3 to turn a mob. Shit like that's allowed me to perfectly break mezzes every time.
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:29 AM   #3
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I already reposted this in the archives.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:58 PM   #4
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Gotcha, I must have missed it. Thanks Brael.
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