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Old 10-26-2009, 10:13 PM   #61
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First of all, thank you Elidroth for coming here to discuss the issue. Secondly, since the devs can make no public comment on exploits and all of you are still arguing about FC1 zombies, you might take a look at Goru Uldrock, the Reincarnate. Although in an expansion or two this same exploit would be happening in FC1, the situation that caused this issue to be looked into is probably this one (see this thread on EQlive stating the event has been disabled temporarily.) Lastly, whatever solution Brael and you Devs can work out to have the least impact on sks using this ability without intentionally exploiting it is probably best. One possible solution I thought of to try and fix this issue would require a code change, which is probably more time than the team wants to put in; but, if you can code Mortal Coil not to fire on killshots of NPCs flagged as raid-encounters it would likely do away with the majority of the situations where this is a problem. Of course going forward it should be noted that raid events that spawn infinite waves of npcs should be tagged with the appropriate bodytype to leave no corpse and give no exp.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:22 PM   #62
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Of course going forward it should be noted that raid events that spawn infinite waves of npcs should be tagged with the appropriate bodytype to leave no corpse and give no exp.
This is the change that should be made. Saying "oh, I found another event with infinite adds" is not a justification for changing Mortal Coil. The problem lies with the nature of inifinite add spawning events yielding XP. Changing Mortal Coil is merely a bandaid fix.
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:46 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by zarzac View Post
I still am in no way convinced that FC could be done AFK, or even solo and NOT AFK.
It couldn't be. Multiple SK have attempted it pre-nerf. It is not possible without outside support. Specifically regardinging FC1 itself, this nerf changes nothing whatsoever.
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Old 10-27-2009, 01:43 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Elidroth View Post
Anyway.. with the feedback so far, I'm inclined to adjust my changes to the following: Lower the chance that Mortal Residue can fire to be in the 2-5% range. In addition, the time the blocker would be in place would equal the MC buff in time. This ensures the MC cannot be up 100% of the time (solving the AFK SK problem), but not overly penalizing the legitimate player.
This is a very fair compromise. Thank you for not only listening to feedback, but actually opening a dialogue here on the boards.
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Old 10-27-2009, 01:55 AM   #65
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This is a very fair compromise.
Not really. It just looks palatable because you're still recovering from being blindsided by the completely ridiculous initial nerf. Elidroth's proposed revision still represents a completely unjustified, devastating nerf to Mortal Coil. It disturbs me how many of you are so quick to be greatful for it simply because it is so much less "completely fucked up" than the original knee-jerk change. The sentiment espoused by you and the many others who have expressed similar (not to single you out, your post was just a convenient quote) is roughly akin to SoE stealing your Mercedes S-Class because someone told them that some guy might have used one for a getaway car after stealing $5 million from Smedley's personal safe, and then a week later, after you complain about how unfair it is that you can no longer get to work, they offer you a bicycle and you exclaim, "Wow, this is so much better than walking! Thanks for the fair compromise!" Yeah, a bicycle is better than nothing, but seriously, you should still have a high end luxury automobile.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:17 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Slein Jinn View Post
It disturbs me how many of you are so quick to be greatful for it simply because it is so much less "completely fucked up" than the original knee-jerk change.
don't mistake 'grateful' with 'we're gonna get fucked no matter what - this way hurts less'. not a single one of us feels any change to how MC worked is justified, but the reality is that a change is indeed what we have to live with - at least that's the impression i've gotten by the feedback we've received. given that, i'll take an imposition over a grievous violation.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:38 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Slein Jinn View Post
Not really. It just looks palatable because you're still recovering from being blindsided by the completely ridiculous initial nerf. Elidroth's proposed revision still represents a completely unjustified, devastating nerf to Mortal Coil. It disturbs me how many of you are so quick to be greatful for it simply because it is so much less "completely fucked up" than the original knee-jerk change. The sentiment espoused by you and the many others who have expressed similar (not to single you out, your post was just a convenient quote) is roughly akin to SoE stealing your Mercedes S-Class because someone told them that some guy might have used one for a getaway car after stealing $5 million from Smedley's personal safe, and then a week later, after you complain about how unfair it is that you can no longer get to work, they offer you a bicycle and you exclaim, "Wow, this is so much better than walking! Thanks for the fair compromise!" Yeah, a bicycle is better than nothing, but seriously, you should still have a high end luxury automobile.
That's just fucking ridiculous...everyone knows $medley never lets that safe out of his site, hell, it was the best man at his wedding!
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:46 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Tearsin Rain View Post
don't mistake 'grateful' with 'we're gonna get fucked no matter what - this way hurts less'. not a single one of us feels any change to how MC worked is justified, but the reality is that a change is indeed what we have to live with - at least that's the impression i've gotten by the feedback we've received. given that, i'll an imposition over a grievous violation.
Im gonna have to agree with Tearsin here to an extent, Slein. Im as outspoken of an SK as someone will find on any server - However, Elidroth and the devs in general have pretty much made it known that a change needs to be put in place and the change that is being talked about here is fair when talking in the whole "we must change MC" spectrum. Does it suck? Yes, it sucks. If it was up to me, i'd just reverse the nerf back to how it was and call it a day. I still think the devs viewpoint on this whole MC nerf situation is a bit skewed and it doesnt make a lick of sense, what-so-ever. My only question about this entire thing though (without a blatant call for other classes being nerfed) will other classes have their swarm/multiple mob killing means toned down as well? MC so happened to be ours and yet its gonna be "fixed" - When the whole fact of the matter is that there are other classes out there that can kill swarms of mobs better than us and at a faster pace than us as well. I can take my Monk and use his Crystallos level 2HB...pull 20+ Field of Scale trash and whirlwind / destructive force the entire pile of mobs down all at once without even thinking about pushing my mend button. My SK cant even think about doing something like that, at least, not as fast as my Monk can. Anyway, if your gonna single out SKs on this whole "swarm killing" case, then please have a look at other classes also. Do it across the board or dont do anything at all, is my main gripe.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:05 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Kelefane View Post
Im gonna have to agree with Tearsin here to an extent, Slein. Im as outspoken of an SK as someone will find on any server - However, Elidroth and the devs in general have pretty much made it known that a change needs to be put in place and the change that is being talked about here is fair when talking in the whole "we must change MC" spectrum. Does it suck? Yes, it sucks. If it was up to me, i'd just reverse the nerf back to how it was and call it a day. I still think the devs viewpoint on this whole MC nerf situation is a bit skewed and it doesnt make a lick of sense, what-so-ever. My only question about this entire thing though (without a blatant call for other classes being nerfed) will other classes have their swarm/multiple mob killing means toned down as well? MC so happened to be ours and yet its gonna be "fixed" - When the whole fact of the matter is that there are other classes out there that can kill swarms of mobs better than us and at a faster pace than us as well.
Then call a spade a spade. People are groveling with this "oh thank you for being so reasonable and making this change" nonsense, and it's frankly disgusting. Stop sugar coating everything just because a Dev is involved. The proposed change is totally unreasonable, but it just so happens that it is less unreasonable than the previous incarnation. So say as much. Say, "well, it is a massive improvement from the current state of things, but it is still an excessive and unjustified nerf" (see my previous posts for elaboration). Don't give the false impression that we're perfectly okay with being sucker punched in the kidneys just because it's preferable to being knifed in a back alley. Just because what he's decided to do sucks a lot less than what he decided to do last week doesn't mean the current decision is a good one.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:23 AM   #70
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I agree Slein, but what can honestly be done if their mind is already made up though?
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